Gold Experience Requiem Explained
Gold Experience Requiem Explained
What GER's Explained And Shown To Do In Part 5
I highly recommend watching these for the full context of GER.
What RTZ (Return/Revert To Zero) Falls Under As A Hax
The user can redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by inverting the relation cause/effect, or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to be caused or a specific cause not producing any effect. This allows one to achieve virtually anything by redirecting the selected cause to the desired effect.
Causality Manipulation is a more specific variation of- (“See Also” in CSAP)
Users of “Time Manipulation” are able to effect specific areas or people, slowing, reverse, accelerating or even looping time.
Time Manipulation (Along with Causality Manipulation of course) is a more specific variation of-
Reality Warping (also referred to as Reality Manipulation, Alteration, and Bending) is the ability to create, shape, and manipulate reality.
(Possible applications [That matter here]: Space-Time Manipulation, Fate Manipulation.)
Going back to Causality Manipulation, that by itself could grant characters Fate Manipulation through possible uses, and in GERs case it DOES grant GER Fate Manipulation in the context of JoJo & Diavolo’s ability, changing fate ONLY when RTZ activates-
Fate Manipulation is the ability to manipulate destiny itself to achieve a desired result. While more powerful variations can make it possible to ordain one's victory against their opponent.
This would give GER a very limited variation of-
Specifically Type 2 - Temporal Singularity: Having a resistance to abilities like Precognition and Fate Manipulation.
Now as for whether all the qualifications above for GER via RTZ is passive or not will be gone over later in this blog.
JoJo Stand Stats & Guidebooks Explained
Stand Stats
All Stats: "None"
JoJo-A-GoGo
GER Strength P93
(Title)
"The ultimate stand that returns everything to nothing !!"
(Right Side)
"After destroying Polnareff's Requiem, Giorno, with the Arrow in his hand, pierces his Gold Experience and activates it. The power of the arrow is completely under Giorno's control. Its ability is to nullify the opponent's movement and will. Furthermore, it has an attack power that surpasses that of existing Stands, making it the "Ultimate Stand". Even the death of the people who are struck by the Requiem is brought back to zero, and those people continue to die over and over again. Diavolo, who trusted his own precognition and attacked, was forced to experience death for all eternity."
(Below Manga Panel)
"Powerless will!!!
In front of Requiem, the will of all enemies is powerless. The enemy will never reach a result that is beyond their will. (63-99)"
(Under Stand Stats, Next to GER)
"The ability of "Requiem" selected by "Arrow" is impossible to compare with the existing Stand measuring rod. Even Giorno, the main body, doesn't know about the power that makes all willpower go away."
(Bottom)
"More destructive power!!
After being pierced by an arrow, Gold Experience's abilities evolved, greatly increasing its power and speed. That attack also wounded King Crimson."
(Bio Left of Giorno)
Giorno Giovanna Born April 16, 1985, AB type. With that in mind, he stood at the top of the power to control the "arrow"
JoJoVeller
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"A design that purely grows Gold E. While keeping the point of the pattern, try adding arrows. After that, I've grown and blossomed... so maybe my head is open (laughs)"
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"↑ Even if King Crimson "predicted" Giorno's death, he pretends it never happened."
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"The Ultimate Power to Bring Everything to Nothing"
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"The stand evolves when an “arrow” pierces Gold-E's body.
It has the ultimate ability to change the opponent’s movement and will to zero. Those who are struck by Requiem are returned to "zero" even after death, so they repeat "death" endlessly without ever reaching the truth of "death"."
Other translations regarding the ultimate ability statement say this instead
“The ultimate ability of the Requiem is that it can turn into a force.”
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"↑Those who die in Requiem's attack will have their deaths returned to nothing, and will experience death forever."
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"↑In order to nullify the enemy's actions and intentions, Diavolo felt that the erasing time had gone backwards"
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"←↓Throw pebbles at a speed that the super-speed King Crimson cannot see. It has the power to penetrate your hands and destroy the building. Then turn the stone into a scorpion and stab a poison needle into Diavolo's right hand."
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"Speed and Destructive Power Increases
Gold E, accepted by the Arrow as one qualified to control it, it nullifies all of King Crimson's abilities without going haywire because the Arrow's power is controlled by its body. He ends the battle by inflicting a never-ending death on Diavolo."
Now with all the statements there, lets go about properly interpreting them
Which Do The Stand Stats/Description Refer To, GER or RTZ?
RTZ, this one is pretty obvious given it's the only thing being talked about in GER's Stand Description in Part 5, and it's very common for stand descriptions in JoJo like Star Platinum and Kiss for example to have a stand description that represents what their stands mainly about.
Physically wise in SP's case as it's stand description mainly talks about the stands Strength and Speed, with Time Stop being a small note or a separate addition. SP's Strength, Speed, and everything else physical about the stand is what's being measured by the stand measuring rod, hence all the high ratings cause its the strongest and fastest stand in the series, not accounting Infinite Speed stats of course.
Ability wise in Kiss's case, as the stand description only talks about the stand ability, which is capable of doing physical damage as well as having a speed to help accomplish that. Ergo, the ability is what's being measured by the stand measuring rod. There's even a JoJoVeller guidebook statement to support this line of reasoning, stating:
"The main focus is on the ability to return two objects that have both applicable abilities and high stats, and the damage that accompanies them, but there are many opportunities for abilities to be utilized outside of battle. In addition, although only the stickers are conspicuous and the stand itself is rarely used, the basic performance is also quite excellent, and it demonstrates considerable strength even in a single pure hit."
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Finally it’s worth noting that in some cases where stand descriptions talk about the stand ability, it doesn’t always mean that the ability is what's being measured by stand stats or stand measuring rod, and requires context and common sense to deduce what's being measured. For example TA4 doesn’t have Infinite stats despite its ability being Infinite and the stands description in part 7 and JoJoVeller only talk about the stands ability. From there we can just logically assume that its stand stats are referring to the stands' physical stats rather than the Infinite Rotation, as the stand leaves a crater in the ground with one punch.
In regards to the GER JoJo-A-GoGo statement that says:
"The power of the arrow is completely under Giorno's control. Its ability is to nullify the opponent's movement and will. Furthermore, it has an attack power that surpasses that of existing Stands, making it the 'Ultimate Stand'. "
People say that "Attack Power" being used here must refer to the stands physical attack power, but that is simply far from the truth, as everything in that quote is talking about RTZ by starting off saying "Its ability" and continues after briefly explaining RTZ by saying "Furthermore", furthermore means:
"In addition to what precedes"
Definition Example: "She always arrives on time; furthermore, her work is always excellent."
Basically, RTZ having the ability to null an attacking opponents will and actions, is the reason why it has an Attack Power that surpasses that of existing stands.
In addition, everything in that statements section in GER's page is talking about RTZ specifically, with even a manga panel shown to reference the subject matter of RTZ, that being Diavolo/King Crimson being RTZ'd
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(Title)
"The ultimate stand that returns everything to nothing !!"
(Right Side)
"After destroying Polnareff's Requiem, Giorno, with the Arrow in his hand, pierces his Gold Experience and activates it. The power of the arrow is completely under Giorno's control. Its ability is to nullify the opponent's movement and will. Furthermore, it has an attack power that surpasses that of existing Stands, making it the "Ultimate Stand". Even the death of the people who are struck by the Requiem is brought back to zero, and those people continue to die over and over again. Diavolo, who trusted his own precognition and attacked, was forced to experience death for all eternity."
(Below Manga Panel)
"Powerless will!!!
In front of Requiem, the will of all enemies is powerless. The enemy will never reach a result that is beyond their will. (63-99)"
People say RTZ having an Attack Power is ridiculous because it doesn't attack anyone, this is partially true, as while RTZ doesn't physically attack anyone, it only attacks a persons Will & Actions by nulling the potency of their Will & Actions below what they should be, to zero if the person decides to attack Giorno/GER. As well as putting the near death attacker into an Infinite Death Loop where their "deaths" are constantly being reverted. Will in this case is important because in the context of stand users, Will is Mind & Soul, which RTZ nullifies stands and stand abilities. The JoJoVeller Guide above support RTZ being an attack stating:
But to play Devil's Advocate, lets assume that Attack Power is referring to GER physically, this is immediately contradicted when GER failed to take out or put Diavolo near death in at least 3 strikes/punches. This is important because Diavolo just off of a Silver Chariot sword swing that didn't fully connect, comments that if it did fully connect/if he was closer, he would've taken severe damage, severe meaning "very great; intense" or "strongly critical". Which means that if Diavolo took at least 2 or 3 hits from SC, it'd be undoubtably fatal. And GER couldn't immediately replicate the damage SC did to Diavolo, it required two full barrages. And there's no good argument that can be made here in defense of GER as stands like Star Platinum not holding back is donutting Dio and a barrage turns Dio flat as a pancake. Nothing like that happens at all with Diavolo, at best a pieces of his stands head came off but diavolo is still alive and kicking, even went back for seconds only to get knocked down again, plus we see Diavolo's head is still intact when he's in the river, so maybe he had a fractured skull?
What Does It Mean, To Be Impossible To Measure?
Going off this JoJo-A-GoGo statement:
"The ability of "Requiem" selected by "Arrow" is impossible to compare with the existing Stand measuring rod. Even Giorno, the main body, doesn't know about the power that makes all willpower go away."
It's common for people to interpret this as RTZ ability/power wise is beyond what the stand measuring rod can measure, thus it's Incomparable and the reason why its stats are "None". But that common notion on what "Incomparable" means presupposes one definition over the other without taking the context of RTZ into account, and which way of interpreting that statement has more evidence and is logically consistent.
Incomparable means either two things:
1. Eminent beyond comparison/Matchless
2. Not suitable for comparison/Unable to be compared; totally different in nature or extent
There's only one piece of evidence that supports the first definition of Incomparable being applied to RTZ, that being the JoJo-A-GoGo statement saying "Furthermore, it has an attack power that surpasses that of existing Stands, making it the 'Ultimate Stand'". Polnareff even backs this up:
And that's where it all ends for the evidence for definition one being true, and there's many problems with it. As the evidence presented only talks about RTZ/The Arrows Power being beyond stand abilities/powers that already exist. Never once mentioning the stand measuring rod or even giving a reason as to why RTZ's stats are none to assert the idea that of all it's stats are beyond the stand measuring rod. A more proper way to interpret the statements presented is to say that RTZ as an ability, is more powerful than any stand ability part 5 and below. Given that it's going beyond/surpassing "Existing" (Current, within Part 5) "or Already Existent" (Before Part 5) stand abilities/powers in the context of part 5, which would make any statement past part 5 for other stands having statements of having the strongest stand ability ever or simply never existed until after Part 5 like Made In Heaven supersede RTZ's statement, as they aren't applicable to the conditions of it. Especially if they're in an Alternate Universe like the Part 7-9 verse, obviously non existent to the original Part 1-6 verse for us to even entertain the idea of RTZ's statement applying to them. And the cherry on top is that Part 6 immediately retcons the guidebook & Polnareff statement of RTZ surpassing existing stands as Star Platinum was stated twice to not only have not just the strongest ability, but the strongest stand ability ever in general, that being Time Stop. Ever meaning "At any time" or "At all times, always". Also, obviously SP's statement wouldn't apply to parts past part 6, different universe.
But to play Devil's Advocate again, lets assume that RTZ as an ability is above the stand measuring rod, therefore the ability has Infinite Speed because that's a measurable stat for B.I.G and MiH, that RTZ is above, coolio, we are now entering the can of worms that's just been opened with this scaling.
It's agreed upon that RTZ is Causality Manipulation, by that standard, RTZ having Infinite Speed would just debunk itself because of how Causality works with the ability in the first place.
The explanation simply goes as follows scientifically with causality “The cause (independent variable) must precede the effect (dependent variable) in time”, in order for an event to precede, something has to come before it. Infinite speed would get to where they’re going whether it be an Infinite distance or a finite distance in a literal Instant or in zero time. Which leads into the problem that if something has to precede, then it can’t happen at the same time. So to give an example, if 1+1 = 2, 1+1 is the cause, the first 1 is the starting point in the equation, the second 1 in the equation is the progress/motion of reaching 2, and equaling 2 is the effect of the equation. Now naturally by GER’s RTZ ability, you can’t get to 2 if you’re reverted back to 1, but up against a person with Infinite speed, GER can’t RTZ that opponent because of a simple reason that you can’t revert 1 back to 1 if you never got close to 2 in the first place, cause you’re still at the first 1. Which makes it even clearer that RTZ by its own nature has to have a set calculable speed of how fast it can activate in reaction to something happening.
Tldr - Arguing Infinite Speed RTZ for GER is basically saying RTZ can reset the Cause back to the Cause, that’s like reverting an opponent that never moved to make or reach near an effect in the first place, it’s nonsensical, and goes against the nature of the ability of reverting something right before it reaches an effect back to the cause. Or another way of saying it, is that characters with infinite speed are simultaneously doing something and not doing anything. The reason is because they move so fast, they are literally in two places at once. In order to revert something you need a previous state to revert to, but they technically haven't left their initial state of being.
Note: (Assuming GER physically and ability wise has Infinite Speed or higher) GER's only showcase of comparing speed to Diavolo would make him 1.4x to 4x faster than Diavolo via calcing. Which helps in proving that GER has a calculable speed and not some incalculable Infinite, Inaccessible, or even Immeasurable speed, because there's no reason for GER to hold back it's own attack speed against Diavolo, an opponent GER wants to give a fate worse than death to, an opponent Giorno wants to beat down and kill. Diavolo even comments that he can just barely dodge GERs attacks via Epitaph meaning there has to be some quantifiable difference in speed between GER and Diavolo unless someone wants argue that GER's speed is unquantifiable therefore Infinite, meaning that Diavolo with Epitaph can barely dodge bare minimum, Infinite Speed attacks. This also means that anyone who at least scales relative to Diavolo like Bruno and Polnareff would have Infinite Speed as well which obviously isn't true and is something I'll elaborate more on down below regarding the Inaccessible speed arguments around Diavolo's Time Erasure.
Also keep in mind that GER wouldn't scale to the speed of its ability at all given that GER has to activate the ability with its own physical reaction time speed separate from the stats of RTZ, as we established earlier that what the stand stats for GER are describing and trying to measure is the RTZ ability, not GER physically (Plus you wouldn't say that you yourself would scale to the speed of a bullet you fired in any way would you? Or that Goku would scale to his own Instant Transmission?). Or that RTZ will activate on its own in reaction to something happening, which leads us down another rabbit hole, Is RTZ Passive?
This is a hard no, to put it simply, the idea or argument of RTZ being passive is very incoherent and impossible for the ability itself in the context for its use. A good example of a true passive ability would be Gojo's infinity from Jujustu Kaisen (Blind Fold Off), where Infinity is around himself at all times and nobody without special equipment or techniques can touch him because of the infinitely divided space between him and his opponent. Now, if RTZ were actually passive, it'd be constantly RTZing any/all will and actions of everything near Giorno & GER, the ability would basically be completely uncontrollable and useless. Which is why the stand description of the ability specifies "The strength of an attacker's will and actions will be reverted to zero."
The JoJoVeller Guide even supports the idea of RTZ being activated rather than passive, given the ability would be completely uncontrollable which the guide agrees with, which is why Gold Experience was accepted by the arrow because it can actually control the power of the arrow without going haywire, unlike Silver Chariot.
This is very important, control means "Determine the behavior or supervise the running of" and "Maintain influence or authority over.", these things like "Maintain" generally meaning "Cause or Enable to continue".
Actively controlled, nothing passive.
"Gold E, accepted by the Arrow as one qualified to control it, it nullifies all of King Crimson's abilities without going haywire because the Arrow's power is controlled by its body. He ends the battle by inflicting a never-ending death on Diavolo."
Note: Just realized this but, for the people that argue that RTZ is both Passive & has Infinite Speed, is just extremely goofy. How can something passive have infinite Speed when the passive ability doesn't have an activation or move at all because it's always passively out all the time to revert an attackers will and actions? It'd just be...there. It wouldn't have any speed lol, Just like how Gojo's passive Infinity wouldn't have a speed. But yea, once again there's genuinely nothing in the Part 5, and Guides that support RTZ being passive.
Alright, out of the rabbit hole and onto definition two of Incomparable being applied to RTZ, the one I believe has more evidence and makes the most sense.
There’s a lot of RTZ that is hard to quantify physically, because there’s nothing physically tangible about RTZ, which is why its destructive capability, precision, speed, range, permanence, and growth are "None" as it’s just an invisible force messing with time, reverting will and actions of an attacker, manipulating causality isn’t a physically measurable idea, making the physical measurement of RTZ a textbook category error, aka an error in which things belonging to a particular category are presented as if they belong to a different category, or alternately a property is ascribed to a thing that could not possibly have that property. Which is why the ability is impossible to compare with the existing Stand measuring rod. But to go further in detail, RTZ has none in Destructive Capability because it's not physically attacking anyone unlike Kiss’s Ability in Part 6 that does. Precision is none because the ability doesn’t have a physical precision. Speed is none because the ability itself doesn’t have a speed until activated, example: A ball is lying on the ground, obviously it has zero speed, it will only have speed once an external source such as myself picks it up and throws it, giving it speed that's completely reliant on me. This is no different than the speed of RTZ being completely reliant on how fast GER can apply it because the ability by itself has zero speed. Plus it has no physical speed so that's another thing. Growth is simply none, the ability is the pinnacle of the arrows power, there's no growth to be had here. Range & Permanence will be gone over down below. Also the idea of trying to physically quantify a non physical/tangible ability that returns an attackers will and actions to zero is truly a head scratcher in general, which makes sense to rate all its stats as "None" because it's simply "Not suitable for comparison" or "Totally different in nature".
All this would be no different than trying to quantify the ability of Time Stop physically, as RTZ & Time Stop wouldn’t be able to be measured the standard way in the stand measuring rod due to the nature of their abilities and non physicality.
For more evidence, Burning Down The House is a perfect example to RTZ’s Stats.
Its stats refer to the stands ability that brings about Ghost objects, rooms, etc. All these things are hyper hard to quantify the ability physically because it doesn’t do anything physically, which applies to its Strength, Speed, Durability, Staying, Precision, and Learning. The ghost objects can’t even physically interact with living things, further tying into why all its stats are “None”.
Even Araki in the JoJo-A-GoGo guide thinks Time Abilities in general (which is what RTZ is) have no range, supporting the none stat in RTZ as well as a none in permanence as Araki himself in an interview seems to have a hard time quantifying abilities involving time in jojo in a standard way, making guesses, being unsure, but the only thing he is sure about is that generally they’re very powerful. Even stated here too. Which is supported by RTZ having an attack power surpassing existing stands and Time Stop being the strongest ability ever.
Ultimate & Requiem Stands
An Ultimate Stand is a stand that has an Ultimate Ability/Power, A good example is Star Platinum after it gained the ability to stop time, being called the "Ultimate Stand" stated once in Part 4, and once in the JoJoVeller Guidebook section for Part 4 Jotaro. It's stated twice in Part 6. That's a total of 4 Ultimate Stand statements for Star Platinum that come before and after GER's existence. These Ultimate Stand statements accompanied by Ultimate Ability statements in reference to Time Stop. As its once again stated in the JoJoVeller Guidebook that Star Platinum unlocked the Ultimate Power to stop time against Dio, as well as stated that Time Stop is an Ultimate Ability in the raw translation of Star Platinum's Stand Description in Part 6, which is again a total of 2 Ultimate ability/power statements before and after GER's existence. GER has 0 statements in Part 5 referring to it as an Ultimate Stand or it having an Ultimate Ability which makes sense because the context of the arrow leans towards defining what a Requiem Stand is, but even then, Both the JoJo-A-GoGo & JoJoVeller Guides, GER is referred to as an Ultimate Stand, with RTZ being the Ultimate Ability, here's the statements below, refer to the guidebook scans section of this blog for visuals.
"The ultimate stand that returns everything to nothing !!"
"The power of the arrow is completely under Giorno's control. Its ability is to nullify the opponent's movement and will. Furthermore, it has an attack power that surpasses that of existing Stands, making it the 'Ultimate Stand'."
That's 2 Ultimate Stand statements for GER.
"The Ultimate Power to Bring Everything to Nothing"
"It has the ultimate ability to change the opponent’s movement and will to zero."
And that's 2 Ultimate Ability statements for GER.
Now onto explaining what a Requiem Stand is, the only thing that makes a Requiem Stand different from an Ultimate Stand is that it has the power to dominate souls, and the highest level of potential/power we see come from the arrow fully realized is GER with the ability to revert an attacker's will(soul/mind) and actions to zero. Requiem stands also have increased strength and speed, but their ability is what makes them so special.
GER In-Character
GER in tandem with its main ability, from everything we’ve seen, its goal isn’t to incapacitate or kill its opponent, it’s to beat the opponent down until they’re near death so that the death loop will activate. Which would also line up with certain requiem stands just having goals of their own in a fight like SCR. And to top it off, GER at the beginning of a fight will just float and stand there for like 40 seconds before eventually attacking, like he did with diavolo, which allowed Diavolo to precog GER btw. Another time of GER doing nothing is when he slowly approached Diavolo to beat him down, letting Diavolo do whatever he wanted except kill Giorno obviously (Though the reason for GER doing that could be that GER is confident in just RTZing Diavolo off of reaction. Finally it's no coincidence that GER In Character is still mostly reactionary, like its ability). Even in the non canon source material (Supervised by Araki btw) in eyes of heaven, Giorno/GER did nothing against Dio at first, knowing he’s a major threat to the multiverse as a villain, Giorno/GER letting Johnny get packed up by Dio, only rushing in when Dio is about to hit Johnny lmao. Final thing to note is that GER has an ego, believing that no stand ability or ability can stand before him, which would make a whole lot of sense as to why GER is so nonchalant in doing nothing and preferring to be mostly reactive (from what we’ve seen) as it believes without a doubt that not only will its opponent will never overcome its ability, but that any opponent will never overcome its ability. (Also GER got obliterated by TWOH, thought I'd point that out)
Infinite "Death" Loop Explained
In order for this loop to activate GER needs to put his opponent near death, as Trish confirms Diavolo is still alive after he gets punched into the river/stream, and Trish was the main source of sensing Diavolo’s life energy/presence/soul throughout the part consistently, and if Diavolo died and came back to life constantly because of RTZ, then Trish would sense Diavolo's presence constantly vanishing and reappearing which doesn't happen. We even see Diavolo near death in the river state that he’s barely alive and survived somehow, Diavolo bleeding, struggling to get into the sewer with barely any strength. Then of course the death loop activates, and BFR’s Diavolo to different points in time (we literally see the lady at the morgue read out Diavolo’s information, how he died, where he died, what time, etc. Completely in reference to his death in the sewer) to almost die everytime, he’ll never witness the truth of death, staying true to RTZ as an ability because Diavolo gets mangled to near death and right before he dies, he gets RTZ’d and BFR’d into a different situation (Of course these different situations can also be GER manipulating Fate/Warping reality to make these happen passively, once again, once the Death Loop is activated, it will passively continue without GER having to do anything else from what we’ve visually seen and what's been explained in JoJo part 5 and guides). Basically Diavolo actually dying in this "Death Loop" would completely go against RTZ as an ability, because it revert something before reaching an effect, Death is an effect, so it would only make sense that Diavolo is only being reverted right before he dies. Also Diavolo can’t even summon his stand during the infinite death loop (A stand is a person's will/fighting spirit) or fight back because he has no will to do so because of GER’s ability.
Diavolo/King Crimsons Time Erasure/Skip Explained
King Crimson Doesn’t Erase Literal Time, Just Perception/Memory Of Time.
I will reiterate so there’s no confusion, King Crimson DOES erase time, but the disagreement is in what way he does it in. Also another thing I’ll preface is that I'm not trying to over complicate Timeskip/Erase at all or in any way, the ability itself is naturally complicated due to Araki’s poor consistency of what he wants the ability to do, and explaining what it does. Which is why the whole “How does King Crimson Work” meme even exists in the first place in the JoJo community due to the inconsistencies and poor explanation Araki has presented to the consumers of part 5, which is why it’s left up to us to figure out what the hell is actually going on with King Crimson’s ability.
Explanation:
Click here if you want visual examples of some things discussed down below.
Also click here (3:04 - 4:00) if you want a more simple, short tldr.
First let's define what time is, time is simply a rate or measurement of physical change, a progression of events. As that’s just how regular causality works in regards to space time, further explained as “The cause (independent variable) must precede the effect (dependent variable) in time”, so basically in order for an event to precede, something has to come before it. A good example would be a continued audio recording which represents our timeline, there’s a past, present, and soon to be future that’ll turn into the present once we’ve physically progressed towards those events that haven’t happened yet but will. Now, Diavolo uses Epitaph and sees a Fated future that has yet to come, and erases everyone’s perception and memory of that time, allowing them to go about what they were fated to do unconsciously through the progression of events/physical change, and when the ability ends it’ll look like time has skipped from their perspectives except Diavolo. Diavolo during this time still has his perception and memory of time, he is unbound by what was fated to happen to him.
Whether Diavolo/King Crimson is Tangible or Intangible during Timeskip/Erase is honestly irrelevant and based on personal preference, as the conclusion will be same, that he doesn't erase literal time due to the massive scaling inconsistencies and leaps of logic that'd have to be made.
Next point is that Diavolo can only indirectly interact with people in Timeskip/erase when he throws his own blood at someone, as the blood would no longer be a part of him and not an attack, all this is a byproduct of his ability. And this allows Diavolo to change the fated outcome he saw with Epitaph into something he wants like his victory. It’s obviously worth noting that the people in time erase still exist, and aren’t just projections as Diavolo throws blood in their eyes, and the only thing that is a projection is their red future actions the person would follow into like the anime visually shows better than the manga. Very similar to the sharingan from Naruto. Finally the world still exists when Diavolo uses his ability, as Bruno during erased time hits pillars, and Diavolo is shown on multiple occasions walking in the realm that’s supposed to have nothing in it, including a floor, obviously he’s walking or standing on the ground of whatever location he used time erase on.
Now onto the contradictions if Diavolo erased time in a literal/physical change sense, and if Diavolo erased physical change and not perception, no events would proceed or progress, and there’d be no future to skip towards as it hasn’t physically happened or exist yet because there was no physical progression or rate of change from the present to make the future happen and become the new present, all this is in complete contrast to how we see Diavolo’s ability work. Now a common counter argument people would use is “Jobber you silly billy, the future already physically exists, as it was fated to happen, that’s just how time works in JoJo” Well that assumption is simply incorrect, as in JoJo while what is fated to happen in the future will happen, they simply don’t exist yet because time needs to progress to that point in the first place, the best example of this is Made In Heaven accelerating time to infinity, as what was fated to happen in the original universe that happened will happen in the next universe, but just because it’s fated to happen in the far future of this next universe doesn’t mean it already physically exists as Pucci has to accelerate time/physical change to infinity to get there in the first place, especially since the old universe is destroyed with a new one being created and the fated events in the new universe were fated to happen before it even existed, and once it does exist the events will physically precede in a linear continued timeline like the graph for Made In Heaven presents, even stating “Although a new age has begun. It is a new world in which the arrival of these time-traveling organisms was already predestined”.
Now, if the people in Time erase are simply total projections that don’t exist as a byproduct of being erased, then that would mean that Time erase is killing/destroying everyone and everything except Diavolo as the people are simply projections to replace the real people for 10 seconds then when time erase is over it recreates them physically, and this would imply that Diavolo has Universal durability. It’d be even worse to claim that the people still exist in this literal time erasure as it would not only imply they have Universal durability, but Inaccessible speed, especially since these characters use a blood drop timer method to know when Diavolo’s skipped time, are we supposed to believe that these characters hearts pump at inaccessible speeds as well as their blood dropping at those speeds too? Of course not. Even if we go with the route that they’re just projections, it’d still make Diavolo have Inaccessible speed regardless of having time for himself because he’s actively dodging inaccessible speed attacks from these said projections that aren’t supposed to have any time for them, and other characters would scale to this by being able to evade attacks from or tag Diavolo outside of Timeskip/erase like Bruno & Polnareff, then the chain scaling would go on and on to absurdity, but the point is, is that all this would not only be completely inconsistent in Part 5’s speed scaling, but part 1-6’s speed scaling as well as there’s a ridiculous speed scaling chain scale that can be made, the speed scaling is so inconsistent because Inaccessible speed is the ability to move distances, whether finite or infinite, in zero time without the aid of teleportation. Usually being achieved by moving in places outside of time or places where time doesn't flow. Meaning that everyone in Part 5 should be moving everywhere across Italy in zero time or 0 seconds, stand fights would finish in zero time or 0 seconds, remember when Giorno fought Black Sabbath? That battle totally didn’t take anytime at all, even though the sun is constantly going down and turning to night, giving Black Sabbath more of an advantage that is a pivotal aspect of the fight, so I guess we’re going to also assume the sun goes down at Inaccessible, Zero time or 0 second speeds now? Same with Bruno vs Pesci, at the beginning it’s daytime, and at the end it’s almost nighttime. A final example would be Polnareff, since he has Inaccessible speed now, how come he was frozen in Dio’s timestop? Polnareff should be able to move and attack Dio in stopped time if he were truly that fast. And the final nail in the coffin is that Diavolo would massively upscale from all these characters in part 5 except bruno and polnareff in speed since he’s casually reacting to and outspeeding them, obviously these characters do not have Inaccessible speed. Finally, the last and biggest inconsistency of a literal time erase is that the people unconscious in time erase, whether real or not, shouldn't be able to move in front of Diavolo’s eyes, as there’s no time for them to move except Diavolo himself. And if the future is already existent, then realistically Diavolo should’ve only seen two frames with no movement during time erase, the first would be the victims starting action, and the second would the victims final action in the existent future, as this is a scenario with no physical progression from start to end that obviously isn’t supported or shown at all in JoJo in Diavolo’s point of view. But it was shown once from Bruno’s point of view which literally doesn’t make any sense because when time was skipped from Bruno being in front of the pillar to behind it, he should’ve saw nothing and hit nothing on the other side outside of Time Erase because that event can only be witnessed IN time erase by Diavolo as it’s not like Bruno would actually be attacking himself in this scenario because he has no movement or time within Time Erase to do so, and once it ends he should’ve been skipped to the future and he should no longer be where he was before but for some odd reason devoid of the ability he is. I’ll be straight up, this whole event doesn’t even support Time Erase, as it’s more like a random wtf moment, like a bug in a stable videogame, as it’s just not supposed to be there or happen. Supported by the fact that nothing similar to that moment with Bruno and the pillar ever happened again. And there’s never anymore start and end duplicates of anyone throughout the entire part whenever Diavolo uses Timeskip/Erase, basically a massive, and genuinely random outlier. (Also what Diavolo says in the anime about showing Bruno himself isn't what's said at all in the manga, Diavolo didn't purposely show Bruno himself, it just happened as a byproduct of Time Erase.)
Now two quick final things, first, time isn’t the 4th dimension. The 4th dimension is just an additional axis of space beyond the regular 3, and time is simply a temporal rate of change. Please go watch this fellow's video regarding this subject. Second, Regarding what happened to Trish in the elevator and Narancia between bars, it was already fated to happen to them with Diavolo Skipping time and arriving at the result without having to physically do anything, please watch Hamon Beats video on this subject.
Miscellaneous GER Points
"GER reacted during Time Erase"
No he did not, going off of what RTZ does (Reverting an Attackers Will & Actions) , GER activating RTZ couldn't happen during Time Erase because Diavolo cannot attack anyone during his abilities duration, he can only attack them after Time Erase ends. Which is why Diavolo positions himself into advantageous spots and throws blood onto peoples eyes. So GER activated RTZ after Time Erase ended, even the anime visually supports this. For super skeptics out there, even the guides say Diavolo/KC cannot attack while Time Erase is active “It can be said that it is an invincible stand that has both destructive power and absolute avoidance ability. Cannot attack while the ability is activated”. Now someone would say "How could GER react to Diavolo if he was blinded by his blood", the answer here is pretty simple, regardless of if GER was blinded, what's most likely the case is that GER is so much ridiculously faster than Diavolo/King Crimson, that it would be able to not only readjust its eyes, but also react to Diavolo/King Crimson's attack. Which makes sense as Diavolo can't even perceive, GER's attacks, even with Epitaph. And when Diavolo says nobody can consciously move in Time Erase, that's while its being RTZ'd, Time Erase has been nullified to 0, making the ability have no effect on GER. With even a JoJoVeller Guidebook statement supporting this (Image up above)
"Gold E, accepted by the Arrow as one qualified to control it, it nullifies all of King Crimson's abilities without going haywire because the Arrow's power is controlled by its body."
So there's definitely no feat here for GER, as people would argue "Inaccessible Speed" off of GER and Time Erase. GER never reacted in non RTZ’d/nullified Time Erase, nor was GER immune to Time Erase without RTZ/nullification.
"Does GER exist in part 6?"
Honestly this question doesn't really matter or change anything if GER did or didn't exist from what was established earlier about the stands & measuring rod statement in this blog.
"GER would still exist if Giorno were to die, then GER would just RTZ Giorno’s death to bring him back to life"
GER’s consistent description across the manga and guides of just only reverting an attacker's will and actions specifically, not reverting Giorno specifically, so there’d just be no evidence to show that GER would revert Giorno’s death if he died or something akin to natural causes, and obviously GER if given opportunity would RTZ Giorno if he were to actually die by his opponent's attack in the fated future, prime example is Diavolo. Finally going off the logic that GER would RTZ Giorno's death if it happened in the present time would have evidence against it as GER reverted King Crimson right before he even struck Giorno, if GER could revert Giorno's death then there'd be no reason for GER to stop King Crimson, but obviously the reason why GER stopped King Crimson is because Giorno's death is an Effect, and by RTZ as an ability, King Crimson won't reach that point in attacking Giorno. Now onto the former, GER still existing past Giorno’s death, all this is based off of comparing GER one to one with Silver Chariot Requiem capable of existing with its user being dead, but SCR is completely different than GER because it's also a Guardian Stand that's carrying out Polnareff's deepest desire even after death, it even has its own criteria for existing after its users death that gets explained. So no, GER wouldn’t exist after Giorno's death (Bonus: GER in both the manga and anime, when Giorno is donuted by King Crimson in the Fated Future, you can see that GER coughs out blood too, showing that Giorno and GER are still connected. Comparing this to SCR where Polnareff is still fine even if SCR takes damage, so this at bare minimum means that GER needs Giorno to stick around.)
"GER can just age a human being to death"
GER can’t age people to death, people make that argument based on the fact that GE aged a tree into its full life cycle with life energy. Thing is we know what happens when GE applies life energy to living organisms, we see it happen to Bruno, and the only effects are that it just accelerates his consciousness.
"GER In JoJo ASBR-"
JoJo All Star Battle and R was not supervised by Araki.
"GER RTZ's an Attackers Will & Actions based on their Intent to attack"
This is literally never stated or shown anywhere, by that logic Diavolo should've been RTZ'd by GER the second Diavolo tried to erase time because he has the Intent to attack Giorno & GER, he even says it out loud.
"Attacks will never land on GER because they never happened"
People that use the quote above to make an argument that GER will completely rewrite whatever you were going to do, therefore you never actually moved. However, GER actually verbally goes against this notion, saying that everything Diavolo did happened and the future he saw is true and will happen, but he will never reach that future because of being Reverted To Zero. The ability is called Revert (Return to prior state) To Zero, not Rewrite (Alteration) To Zero. Also, there's a logical contradiction here, there'd be no reason to revert an event that never happened because it never happened, there's literally nothing to revert. Which is why an event needs to happen and be near the end of its completion (Giorno's Death Diavolo saw, and the ending of Time Erasure to Attack) in order for it to be reverted in the first place. And Supported by the fact we earlier above proved that RTZ activated after Time Erase. Finally, something that is a true rewrite ability is when TWOH rewrites GER's RTZ ability so that he never had it.
"GER can RTZ an opponent back to base form"
GER is only shown to revert an opponent to right before they took an action of progressing to attack Giorno, to assert that RTZ can revert things even farther then that has no evidence and is insane. Even factoring in Will, Diavolo still had the Will to use King Crimson and attack GER again despite being RTZ'd. Context is very important in deciding what state RTZ will revert an attackers will and actions back to, for example: If Goku (Equal speed) turned Super Saiyan Blue and immediately went to go attack GER, he'd get reverted back to before he turned SSB which is at the beginning of his action of progressing to attack Giorno. But if Goku were already in SSB for about a minute, and then decided to attack Giorno, he wouldn't be reverted back to before he transformed because that wasn't the beginning action of his progression to harm Giorno. Also before someone even tries it, the duration of RTZ is the same duration of Time Skip/Erase, which is 10 seconds. To claim RTZ has a duration longer than 10 seconds has no evidence and is insane.
"Narratively, it doesn't make sense for GER not to be above literally every stand in the series because of the hype statements it has of being the most powerful compared all stands"
Narrative arguments are moreso speculative arguments that are trying to predict what might be true based
on certain things presented, instead of making concrete conclusions of what can be asserted as true, examples given here. Sure GER might be the strongest stand from what's been presented, but actually looking fully into it with more evidence and reasoning, a concrete conclusion that can be asserted as true is that GER isn't the strongest.
“GER is automatic and/or RTZ is Automatic”
A lot of people mindlessly abuse the automatic activation argument for GER and RTZ. While it’s true for GER physically via the definition of automatic being able to move and act independently of its user Giorno. That doesn’t make RTZ automatic because the stand has to activate the ability via its own reactions to what's going on, and the final nail in the coffin is that other stand abilities in JoJo have been blatantly stated to be automatic like Wonder of U. While RTZ doesn’t even have any “Automatic” statements, and GER being an automatic stand isn’t even a W because automatic stands are just stands on autopilot that only do simple things, Sheer Heart Attack follows its victims/heat signatures then explodes when the stand registers via its own reactions & independence that the conditions of close distance have been met. GER activates RTZ when the stand itself registers via it’s own reaction & independence that the conditions of RTZ’s activation has been met. There’s nothing passive or instantaneous happening here.
Where Does Actually GER Scale?
GER physically would just scale relative or a little bit above Diavolo in Strength, Diavolo even acknowledges that GER did get stronger and faster, but is still capable of harming Giorno if not for GER’s interference. GER should also be massively faster than Diavolo & King Crimson (by 1.4x to 4x) because they can't even perceive its attacks. GER in terms of AP,Durability, and Speed generally scaling to King Crimson, and King Crimson scales to a base Silver Chariot, that could at least harm Star Platinum tier foes.
Now, with the JoJo Powerscaling meta, this would make GER Town to possibly Small City Level+ in Attack Potency & Durability. As well as MFTL+ (1,000) in Speed.
Hax Potency wise, RTZ should be Uni+ in range/general hax potency, since it should be comparable to other Space Time abilities like Time Stop,Time Acceleration,and Time Skip that affect the entire universe. Even Araki with these time abilities refer to them affecting “The World”, usually meaning “Universe” as he says the same thing about time stop and acceleration when time acceleration was affecting the entire universe and time stop worked on it. And so there's no confusion, Time Skip/Erase is Uni in range, RTZ is Uni+ because it's manipulating literal time, not perception/memory.
How To Beat GER
Here's how any character in JoJo or Fiction could beat GER:
- Be faster and stronger than GER. (Or just being faster would let anything a character could do fly)
- Have a stronger time hax or resistance to time hax on GER's level or above.
- Having an attack that doesn't fall under the activation conditions of RTZ.
- Have stronger power than what RTZ can revert in general.
- Mind Hax.
There's probably more, but the point is that GER isn't Invincible and can be defeated. Just because we barely seen the stand in action doesn't mean we can't come to a conclusion with GER in a fight against anyone from what we do know the stand.
Counter Arguments?
Also there’s lots of fake GER scans and translations out there, be careful and don’t be misinformed!
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